‘Majorcentrism’ making students feel special

Aside from neon tank tops, Apple products and construction paraphernalia, something else has taken up a seemingly boundless presence on campus. It is invisible yet nuanced in every printed flyer, every custom T-shirt, every clique-covered locale. It is, of course, the glaring, invisible force of majorcentrism.

Graphic by Christian Millan

In other words, I have noticed among colleagues a tendency to assume that one’s own field of study is the most essential to society. Furthermore, I have encountered a suggested competition between majors, wherein each claims to be the most intellectually stimulating.

Lunchtime conversation around the Avenue table may begin with cathartic venting on one’s weekly workload, but the chatter inevitably gains momentum as others offer up the weight on their own back to be judged by the non-caring, non-existent Cal Poly Pity Committee.

I have heard engineering students cite the incalculable number of calculus problems they have been burdened with, while architecture majors rebuttal with a testament to their nocturnal — or, rather, sleepless — nature due to wild amounts of hours spent in-studio.

At this point, I might interject with the perils of writer anxiety — if anybody is still willing to listen.

We all have our cut. Students have, more or less, been divided based on their natural affinities, and the respective tasks carry equal weight.

The amount of time a student spends on school work might not even be an accurate representation of his or her effort spent.

In fact, in the Mustang Daily newsroom, where deadlines rule the world, working within a small time frame can be as stressful as staying up all night to finish a project or memorize the parts of a plant.

Cal Poly is a tech-oriented school, and those majoring in engineering seem to think this allots them an extra few degrees of prestige. Members of the College of Math and Science will be the first to admit it’s not easy to live up to the level of precision expected by their professors. But abstract and artistic thinking calls for its own kind of critical brainpower. People in more creative majors have to pull material from — essentially — thin air.

Forgive me for generalizing. I know not all math majors are uncreative, illiterate nerds. However, I don’t think they deserve any more credit than a communication studies, liberal studies or music major.

Granted, math and science courses often deal in absolutes. No one is going to contemplate the holistic value of a math problem if the solution is incorrect. You’re either right or wrong, most of the time, whereas I have gotten credit for more than one non-conclusive paper by burying a half-baked thesis under pages of semantics.

One humbling experience for me occurred during a botany lab I had freshman year, in which we had to plant potatoes and other fast-growing plants. My plants were the only ones in the whole class that refused to grow at all. Aggies — I give credit where credit is due.

And so should you.

Techniques for success among majors are not congruent, and there are certain strategies applicable to each course.

Now, majorcentrism has evolved into a widespread attitude that some students have it better than others. On the contrary, students will become as involved as they want to be. The difference between a passing grade and a memorable portfolio piece is motivation. As students are perpetually compared to one another within areas of study, and areas of study continue to hold each other in high regard or low disdain, there are bound to be victims of this race for importance.

There is no accurate way to measure the importance of a societal role. With hope, we will all be working together one day — however specialized — as engines of the same machine.

  • Matt

    Has it occurred to you that we are not all equal? Some achieve more than others. Period.

    I also take issue with your idea that there is no way compare majors. Some majors add much more value to companies than others. These majors also tend to be far more difficult, which leads to far less supply. These two facts lead to these professionals to earn much higher compensation. This is just one way to show the higher worth of certain majors. Nonetheless, only one concrete example is needed to disprove an argument.

    • Emilie

      Has it occured to you that there are more ways to be valuable to a society than being highly compensated by some company?

      • John

        Like what? I think being highly compensated is a fairly accurate determination of an individual’s value to society.

        Aside from teachers, most jobs that are considered of high value require a great deal of training and result in pretty decent paychecks.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/11/top-jobs-for-grads-nace-2_n_847505.html

        • http://904322 Engineer ego check

          Well than you must be must less valuable to society than let’s say Snookie, because she makes more per episode on Jersey shore than you could hope to make in one year with your technical degree. So if worth is derived from income, than you will be a fraction of the person Snookie is.

        • John

          Looks like someone committed a logical fallacy! While it’s been a few years since I took English 145, I do believe that’s called a ‘hasty generalization.’ You also jumped to the conclusion of correlating societal value with inherent personal worth, which is not an argument I was making, so I won’t attempt to refute it. Still, I think maybe my original statement could use some clarifying so that we don’t find ourselves in a needlessly confusing argument.

          Notice that I said ‘fairly accurate’ and ‘most jobs’. Do not be so vain to think that I need someone to remind me that we do not live in a world of absolutes.

          Obviously there are exceptions to this statement — some writers/musicians/underwater-basket-weavers DO breakout and make a great deal of money. I am not denying this. Still, a great deal of students decide to major in science/engineering/accounting BECAUSE those majors are usually in demand and pay well.

          The individuals on Jersey Shore provide a certain level of… ‘entertainment’… that is valued by some in society. This value correlates to big dollars for MTV, which is why Snooki is paid so well. I’ll leave the level and definition of value up to you. However, I doubt any of the cast went to college hoping to major in something that would land them on a reality show (Guido Studies?). Sometimes the unexpected happens, but you’d be a fool to spend thousands in of dollars in tuition hoping that you’ll be an exception.

          Of course I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who is paying their own way through college. To me, the return-on-investment for my tuition dollars is very important to me and is why I chose to major in the sciences. If you only want to ‘enrich your mind’ or somehow beautify society through spoken-word-jazz, that’s fine too. In fact, if someone else is taking care of your tuition and living expenses, I would encourage it — you’d probably have a much more enjoyable time in college. Just don’t come looking to the dwindling number of scientists/engineers when you need real-world problems solved.

        • Matt

          Well I was going to say everything that John said, but he beat me too it.

          As John said, societal worth is not the same as personal worth. Further, rather than using income as a proxy for societal worth, as it has been shown to have important exceptions, I think we should look directly at the heart of the matter-which schools of thought, in general, make a larger impact on society?

          Over the last 300 years, societies have advanced (and therefore provided a better standard of living for their members) more than throughout the entire remainder of human history. These advances have been driven by medical sciences, self-driven transportation, global communications, computers, consumer electronics, and the like. Every advance in these fields has been made by a technical person. What have the non-technical fields done in that same time period? Written a few more pointless books, just as they have done for the last several thousand years?

      • Kate

        Well said, Emilie. Just because engineering students earn more than teachers doesn’t mean they’re any more valuable. Who do you think taught the engineers?

        • Jack

          Well, engineering professors teach engineers. They all have PhDs in engineering. You don’t see anyone with a PhD in Liberal Arts teaching any engineers about engineering.

  • Stephen

    I respectfully disagree with the above article. Majors are simply not created equal; there is no way to compare the difficulty of a Liberal Studies degree with that of, say, Computer Engineering. The latter is significantly more complex, time consuming, and intellectually difficult. The author’s “writers anxiety” pales in comparison with the effort required to understand multivariable calculus, thermodynamics, electricity, etc. While I agree that most majors have value and make a contribution to society, to posit equality between Communications and Physics, between Art History and Electrical Engineering, or Philosophy and Biochemistry is absurd.

    • Kelsey

      Stephen, do you realize that you’re a testament to the very point David has proven? I urge you to rethink your argument and base it not on assumptions (i.e. “there is no way to compare the difficulty of a Liberal Studies degree with that of, say, Computer Engineering. The latter is significantly more complex, time consuming, and intellectually difficult.”), but look into what it’s like to be an art major or a liberal studies major. Compare research within the subjects, time spent outside class, internships, assignments, exams, teacher’s opinions or societal demographics before you make assumptions. The content is difficult to compare (thermodynamics vs. human resource management or elementary classroom management), and entirely relative to a number of factors. For example, what’s your opinion of “complexity” versus a liberal studies major? Do you have any idea how much time and outside effort liberal studies, journalism, or art majors must put into succeeding in their major? I’m not saying your major (whatever it is) is less difficult than another, but for the sake of knowledge and intelligence (which I’m sure you’re an incredibly intelligent guy), do some research.

      • Matt

        All David has proven is that he desperately wants the useless liberal arts majors to be accepted.

        To compare the difficulty and utilitarian value of liberal arts to engineering is absurd.

      • Stephen

        Kelsey,

        Thanks for your response. However, I feel that I am uniquely qualified to comment on this: I hold a degree from the Cal Poly College of Enginering (BS) as well as a masters degree in the social sciences from a well known, Ivy League university (AM). While my experience is, of course, anecdotal, I can certainly vouch for the ease of my social science degree versus that of my engineering degree.

        In addition, there is an old phrase that goes something like “I don’t need a weatherman to tell me when it’s raining.” I think that applies here quite well: the soft sciences simply are not as difficult as the hard sciences, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist (perhaps you’d prefer a poet) to make that observation. Even if one were to accept the thrust of your argument–that somehow the amount of time one major spends in study versus another–engineering would still come out on top. Beyond this, of course, is the nonsensical nature of the “time = difficulty” argument. Social sciences are important, but not difficult. Not by a longshot.

  • Matt

    Such as?

    • Matt

      *To Emilie

  • me

    Cal Poly is a Polytechnic University, it’s in the friggin name. Anyone who can’t accept the fact that a polytechnic university will foster a culture that deems technical knowledge superior to that of other fields made a huge mistake coming here. Like it or not, ‘Majorcentrism’ is an important part of this school’s culture, it was present long before any of us applied, and I somehow doubt it’s going away any time soon.

  • Anon

    It’s called the GWR. Pretty sure you have to pass that to graduate … so obviously someone thinks skills learned in liberal arts are important.

    • Matt

      I completely agree that writing is an important skill. However, last time I checked, ENGL 134 is the only course related to the GWR. Hence, your argument in no way proves the utility of an entire major of liberal arts.

      • Anon

        You must have not taken your C4 yet. That course fulfills a GE and the GWR. (I know there are other C4 classes, so no need to go there.)

        • Matt

          I am taking a non-GWR C4. Even if there are two course requirements related to the GWR, my point remains the same.

      • Sam

        Actually, ENGL 145 is more related to the GWR, as you have to be able to articulate a proper argument without falling to logical fallies, with coherent organization in order to pass — and graduate.

        Also, how about ENGL 310 while we’re at it? Corporate Communications, where you learn how to write a resume, a cover letter that will get you an interview, how to deliver good or bad news, etc. Things that are definitely “useful” in the business world. But correct me if I’m wrong.

  • Josh

    Every major has its utility and rightful place in society. Within every field of study there will be superstars and slackers. If an individual devotes their life to a discipline, it naturally follows that they view it as the paramount school of thought. However, spending one’s time attempting to belittle other majors merely reveals one’s insecure, approval seeking nature. Yes, we are a polyTECHnical school, but let’s not forget the POLY prefix. Many. Many majors are taught here. All are brought to one school to learn not only their own trade, but how to work with others. In the real world, cross-functional work groups are the cutting edge of business. Anyone who believes their discipline can stand alone, isolated from all our schools of thought, is in for a rude awakening after they graduate.

    • Matt

      In your argument, you are discussing professional organizations. I do not have issues with non-engineering professional majors. What I do have an issue with is majors that do not lead to a profession.

      • anon

        Sorry, the majors you think that are “useless” are at every other college, including *gasp* Ivy Leagues! Sheesh, some people really need to get sticks out of their butts.

        • Matt

          Last time I checked, the bandwagon argument is a logical fallacy. Just because most universities have a liberal arts college, in no way justifies them.

          Rather than saying liberal arts majors aren’t useless, why don’t you tell us why they are useful?

          • Sam

            Your comments have steadily declined from mostly respectful, touting the importance of the scientific majors to being downright rude. Useless, really? Have you ever heard of technical writing? What’s the use of creating these technical advancements (which I will concede are important for the furthering of society and our standards of living) if you don’t have someone who is capable of providing the customer (without whom your product would be the thing that is useless) with information about the importance of the product, how to use it, why they should use it, how to fix it, etc. Yes, I know engineers are taught how to do technical writing, but sometimes it’s not enough. Style is important. Grammar. Being able to tell if what you’re writing is at the correct level of understanding for the audience (will the audience understand your technical jargon or not?). Believe it or not, this is what my English degree is getting me.

            Or how about human resources? What good is a company without that department? Dealing with the employees, their health insurance, compensation, etc., not to mention hiring. Interviewing is a bit more complex than some people realize, as a Communications Studies major would know. This also goes for training and development.

            Or how about the fact that our world is very much globalized these days. Your product will need translating if you really want it to achieve global success. You’ll be stuck without majors like Modern Languages and Literature or minors in Spanish, German, French, Mandarin.

            Ultimately, you are forgetting that our society is very much a complex organism that needs more than advancements. We need people who are good at dealing with people (hello, Psychology), know how to train, know how to communicate across language barriers, know how to convey complex ideas to an audience with less-than-technical knowledge, know how to attract customers’ attention through new media (hello, Art & Design and Graphic Communications), and so on.

            Sorry for the novel, but frankly your claim that the majors that are in liberal arts are useless was beyond insulting. Just because it doesn’t put its students into a box that leads to a specific job doesn’t mean that all we’re going to do post-grad is philosophize and stare at our student loan bills, hoping that something will happen to get those loans paid off.

  • http://420473 Snitch

    All majors are created equal, but some are more equal than other’s
    -George Orwell

    This quote rings very true in this situation. Anyone who thinks about this issue logically and objectively would know that there is a lot of discrepancy between difficulty between majors. Liberal arts majors are way easier than science and engineering majors.

    • Kate

      It’s amusing that you chose to quote George Orwell and that your grammar is incorrect. Clearly, English is a valuable major.

  • JD

    “Liberal arts majors are way easier than science and engineering majors.”

    …Say what? The liberal arts attempt to explain humanity. And in most cases, definite answers to certain aspects of humanity cannot be explained. Why are we so reliant on this capitalistic system? Does a damn “major” even matter in the grand scheme of all things? Are we alien since we don’t necessarily fit in with the rest of our surroundings? Will you go down in history because you majored in engineering and ended up working a 9-to-5 in a stuffy, dusty office? These questions are not easy to answer.

    Free your mind.

    • me

      I don’t think engineers are trying to go down in history, I know I’m not. If you have thousands of dollars to piss away so you can spend the next few years mulling around about the deeper meaning of existence and your place in the cosmos in some major that will not lead to a career, good for you! That sounds like a lot of fun to me. I on the other hand, chose to major in engineering so I could acquire skills that would lead to a job so I could make enough money to live the type of lifestyle I choose, and ultimately take responsibility for the environment I live in and become a responsible adult. I actually enjoy history, have taken several upper division classes in it. I even considered minoring in it, but as tuition prices climbed ever higher I realized that I simply could not afford taking classes for personal enrichment. And for the record the amount of time and mental energy required to even get through an upper division engineering class is far greater than that required ace an upper division history class. The “value to society” or “amount of intellectual stimulation”, are subjective matters, and will vary from person to person. But comparing the time and energy the two require is indeed ludicrous, anyone who disagrees is either incredibly naive or just really fucking stupid.

  • Matt

    It is going to be a real downer driving between my fine home and air-conditioned office in my luxury automobile. Now that you point out how much being a technical professional sucks, I think I’ll change to a liberal arts major, so that I can spend the rest of my life asking, “Do you want fries with that?” and collecting my welfare checks (which, by the way, amounts to government endorsed stealing from those who are responsible and those who aren’t).

    Oh and if you don’t like our capitalistic society, I invite you to move to Russia or China and see how you like that.

    • Mat

      *for those who aren’t

  • http://289588 Snitch

    All liberal arts majors are stupid!! They have no idea what’s going on 90% of the time

  • Yeah

    Looks like Matt is majoring in Douchebag Studies with a concentration in Bigotry and a minor in Materialism!

    • Matt

      I assume you can’t formulate a coherent, mature, and logical response since you’ve reduced yourself to name calling.

    • Right On

      This. This doesn’t have to do with any of his argument, but he just comes off as a prick! My goodness. I hope he isn’t a representation of all the other “engineers” or “math students” at Cal Poly.

  • Debbie

    I completely understand the view of those with technical majors. Yet, to say Liberal Arts majors are “stupid,” unemployable, or useless to society just strengthens the argument of this column. Literature, like Frederick Douglass’ autobiography, Sinclair’s The Jungle, and Steinbeck’s Grapes of Wrath, has provided insight into societal issues that needed to be addressed and changed. In fact, due to the graphic detail of The Jungle, the horrendous conditions of factory workers received further notice and legal standards were established (among other reasons, not just Sinclair alone.) Without the arts, we would be those unfeeling shells of 1984 (which Orwell, who you quoted, wrote beautifully to show the perils of an unemotional, technical society.) Yet, that in no way means that liberal arts majors are better than those with math and/or science majors: we just think and express ourselves differently, and we bring different societal values. We may not make as much money, but we bring voices to those who cannot speak for themselves and, hey, a lot of times we write the manuals for your products, help with your marketing, or help you gain grants for research. To assume that because our major may be less technically difficult means we are brainless morons banging our heads against the wall, skating through school, only spreads ignorance. Our minds work in different ways, and our assignments are also difficult (in different ways) because they require more than just clear-cut technical analysis: they require reading between the lines, skill, and, sometimes, god-given talent. I am also working my way through college, and though I am unsure of my future with my major, I know that with hard work and determination I will be able to live comfortably with a job that may not earn me a Jaguar, but earns enough. College remains only a stepping stone to that future life, and building yourself up naively as supremely superior to those in completely different majors instead of focusing on the faults within yourself that urge you to belittle others will only make your future coworkers not like you and lead you to an empty, loveless bed. Of course, that’s what I hastily generalize as a person with no worth who will not get a job. But at least I’ll get laid! (I know you’ll tear my argument apart, but I am not especially concerned. We obviously have different views, and that’s the way it is.)

    • Matt

      A few points:

      1. My co-workers love me.
      2. I get laid all the time.
      3. Technical disciplines are not robotic. They require at least as much creativity and abstract thought as any other discipline.

      • Debbie

        I apologize for making assumptions about you without knowing you. I envisioned you to be completely insufferable, which is unfair. However, I was not saying that technical disciplines are robotic. I only meant that, to me, they seem to have more clear cut answers. Since your discipline also “require(s) at least as much creativity and abstract thought as any other,” you must know that it can be difficult to come up with those ideas sometimes. Because many areas of Liberal Arts offer so few high profile, famous superstars, we must prove ourselves above and beyond others in order to garner praise and success, and that engenders extensive pressure, just as you probably feel extensive pressure in your field. Both my major and yours are difficult, but in completely different ways. You may disagree with the previous point, but I respect your major just as I respect mine, and find no use in comparing them. But that’s just me.

        • Matt

          I think you have valid points. I’m glad someone from the other side is finally contributing mature, rational thought to this discussion.

  • http://41415 Snitch

    Bottom Line: If you put a liberal studies major in a high level proofs mathematics course, they would not have the mental capacity and knowledge to pass, they just can’t think at that high of a level. However, if you put a valedictorian engineering major, which we have so many, in a high level history, or other liberal arts major, they will pass, and with flying colors too, probably an A.

  • http://480682 Snitch

    Bottom Line: If you put a liberal studies major in a high level proofs mathematics course, they would not have the mental capacity and knowledge to pass, they just can\’t think at that high of a level. However, if you put a valedictorian engineering major, which we have so many, in a high level history, or other liberal arts major, they will pass, and with flying colors too, probably an A.

    • You’ve Got to Be Kidding

      Are you serious?! As a LS major, I can confidently say that I’m in math classes that a lot of the teachers in the MATH department turned down because they’re so difficult. Maybe you’ve paid attention when Gardner’s theory of multiple intelligences came up, and if you did, you’ll remember that there are multiple types of intelligence. I’m not saying that there aren’t vapid LS majors; I would be kidding myself if I didn’t think that. To say that none of us is intelligent, though, is such a far stretch. I could easily find 1,000 engineers who would make AWFUL teachers. Easily. Yes, they would probably do well in the classes, but the degree would be useless to them since they’d be so unfit for the career. Everything is hard to someone, and TEACHERS are the people who are bridging those gaps and attempting to make the impossible a little less difficult.

      Matt, how do you define achievement? I define it not by salary (see the Snooki example above), but rather by how much a person gives to society. It’s too bad that you’re selfish and choose to take all you can, but LS majors choose to give to make your life (and your future child’s life) better. Teaching truly is altruistic, but not necessarily better than any other major. 19,000 LS majors is just as useless as 19,000 engineers; we need a balanced society.

    • You\’ve Got to Be Kidding

      Are you serious?! As a LS major, I can confidently say that I\’m in math classes that a lot of the teachers in the MATH department turned down because they\’re so difficult. Maybe you\’ve paid attention when Gardner\’s theory of multiple intelligences came up, and if you did, you\’ll remember that there are multiple types of intelligence. I\’m not saying that there aren\’t vapid LS majors; I would be kidding myself if I didn\’t think that. To say that none of us is intelligent, though, is such a far stretch. I could easily find 1,000 engineers who would make AWFUL teachers. Easily. Yes, they would probably do well in the classes, but the degree would be useless to them since they\’d be so unfit for the career. Everything is hard to someone, and TEACHERS are the people who are bridging those gaps and attempting to make the impossible a little less difficult.

      Matt, how do you define achievement? I define it not by salary (see the Snooki example above), but rather by how much a person gives to society. It\’s too bad that you\’re selfish and choose to take all you can, but LS majors choose to give to make your life (and your future child\’s life) better. Teaching truly is altruistic, but not necessarily better than any other major. 19,000 LS majors is just as useless as 19,000 engineers; we need a balanced society.

      • Matt

        I’m not the one who said anything about the intelligence of LS majors. Although, I did take at look at the course outlines for the math courses you spoke of (http://math.calpoly.edu/course_outlines.html) and I, along with most other science or engineering majors, knew everyone of those topics coming out of high school. These courses do not compare to even the easiest freshmen level courses for scientists and engineers.

        If you look at my response near the bottom (04.13 @ 9:56 AM), you’ll see that I do discuss societal impact and argue that scientific majors add more value to society. I welcome you to attempt to refute that.

        • sfad

          Majors do not define people or intelligence. People can be book smart but not street smart and vice versa. I’m assuming this article is based on book smart, but there are other factors that contributes to success.

        • LS

          It’s not about the content, it’s about the depth of understanding. It’s the communication side of mathematics, and also the very core of math. It’s applied and relevant.

          Also, as far as money goes, teachers make a lot of money, too. A teacher who’s been in a district for a while and has a graduate degree can easily make upwards of $80,000. With all of the time off, that makes teachers relatively well-paid.

          I’m learning how people learn and how to teach things so that people truly understand them. I’ve taken calculus classes and done okay in them; it’s not that I’m not capable of higher level mathematics. It’s more that I want to understand WHY you add the zero on the right of the second line in double-digit multiplication. It’s not about the content, at all.

      • Riley

        Yeah, it’s really hard to teach:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QamU4-8NUw

        • Matt

          For those of you who aren’t clicking on this link, he is being sarcastic and mocking LS students, not defending them.

          • yeahh

            Because we all reaaaally care what you think.

  • Math>YourLife

    This article just made me happy that the job prospects for journalism majors are around zilch.

    • JD

      Actually, there many job opportunities for journalism majors in the realm of engineering, believe it or not. Technical writers, ever heard of them? Better get used to them, you’ll have to rely on them sometime down the road. They make good $, too.

  • JD

    According to some people here, the only way to be successful is to basically do slave labor for some grand corporation. How exciting and enriching.

    • Matt

      I don’t think that is what we are saying. At least I’m not. I work for a high-end botique consulting firm, not a corporation. In fact, I specifically chose not to work for a corporation, because I do not want to be a corporate drone.

      Again, rather than just telling people that they are wrong, why don’t you tell us why we are wrong and what you’re recommendation is?

  • B

    I never understood the snobbishness of engineering students. I don’t really understand why there’s this attitude of being better than everyone else, and this isn’t only at the university level. Why do students care about someone else’s choice of study? Do what makes you happy in life. It’s a public university, not strictly a tech school. I’m in engineering and nothing annoys me more than this ridiculous attitude many students in my college have. Get over yourselves.

  • Matt

    Are you an upper-division engineering student near the top of your class? I’m sure you could be, but I ask because I’ve noticed that the younger/lower performing engineers send to be less proud of their work.

    Throughout this debate, there have been pro-engineering and pro-professional arguments for the “major-centric” side. If you’ve read my other posts, you’d know that I am arguing for the pro-professional side. That is I am say that science, enineering, accounting, finance, and the like are better than english, poetry, theatre, underwater basket weaving, and so on.

    Whether engineering or other professional majors are better has been discussed at length, but you bring up an interesting point-why do I care what others study? One of the main reasons is taxes. Most of the students that I know or know of that are at the top of their classes in professional majors spend countless hours studying excruciatingly difficult material. On the other hand, the majority of non-professional students I know or have heard of, even those with top grades, spend most of their time watching tv, sleeping, chilling, or consuming copious amounts of alcohol and other drugs. Even when they do “study”, it is about mindnumbingly easy material. I think Stephen has proven my point beyond a doubt. It infuriates me to know that I will be punished for my hard work and success by having to pay 100s, if not 1000s of times more taxes than those who toke the easy route. If we were all taxed at the exact same amount (not rate, which we don’t even have that in our country), then I would still think professional majors are better, but I would be less inclined to care what others do.

    • yep

      Well those profession majors that mention do get paid more anyways than a liberal studies major. It makes sense that they (professionals) are the ones who are being taxed more, since it is how it now..you make more, you get taxed more. It may sound unfair, but you knew what you were getting into because you could have easily taken the “easy route”

      • Matt

        “It is what it is” is probably the most invalid and harmful argument ever uttered. By that line of thinking, slavery or lack of women’s rights was just fine because, as you say, that’s just how it is. Just because our tax system is the way it is in no way makes it right. Your argument in no way justifies that I and others like me will be punished for our hard work and talent.

        I’m also not sure why you’re putting “easy route” in quotes. Non-professional majors are easier. Stephen put an end to that debate.

        • Sam

          I’m sorry, I don’t see the point in your issue with how taxes work. Why should someone who makes $50k pay the exact same in taxes as one who makes $100k? How does that even make sense? If anything, it would make those who make less even more dependent on government help and welfare than the current situation. You seem to be pushing for something that’s more “fair”, but your solution falls short.

          • Matt

            What would your suggestion be? Why should we pay more taxes as our income increases? Does a higher income individual get more services from the government? Last time I checked, the more you make, the less you get from government.

        • M

          One could say that the higher your income is, the smaller the percentage of your income required to sustain your current quality of life is. Increased taxes on higher income brackets then causes the relationship between income and quality of life to look a bit like a natural logarithm rather than a straight line. Continuing the natural logarithm analogy, this also serves to put a lower limit on how bad any person’s life can be by providing those at the lowest end of income with more goods and services, rather than having quality of life plummet towards negative infinity as income approaches zero.

          One of the purposes of civilized society and government is to make it possible to do things like own property without fear of it being taken from you by force. We have police officers, military personnel and other public servants whose job it is to protect you and your property from theft, etc. In a state of complete anarchy and lawlessness, your “property” consists of whatever you can take and prevent others from taking, presumably by force. Therefore, those who have higher incomes actually benefit more from this protection afforded by our government because they stand to lose much more should the entire system fail.

  • http://381593 Nicole

    I have to say that form the article, majors aren’t created equal. But I can say that I was a biochemistry major for three years before I decided that money wasn’t all that I cared about. I switched to journalism because I love to write. So if engineers will love their job not for the money but for the sake of doing it, then the majors can be equal.

  • http://852684 Nicole

    I have to say that form the article, majors aren’t created equal. But I can say that I was a biochemistry major for three years before I decided that money wasn’t all that I cared about. I switched to journalism because I love to write. So if engineers will love their job not for the money but for the sake of doing it, then the majors can be equal.
    But altogether, being a liberal arts major does not make you any less capable of achieving something society will or will not care about. The majors are difficult in their own way.

  • Ceranna

    Ok before I dive into this I want to state one important thing:

    Value does not equal difficulty.

    Thus when I say to achieve an B.A degree is easier than achieving a B.S, that does NOT mean engineering and science has a higher value than liberal arts and humanities.

    In terms of this article I find several things aggravating:
    1) “I have heard engineering students cite the incalculable number of calculus problems they have been burdened with”
    –Calculus is only the first set of math classes engineering majors take. We do so much more than that from fluid dynamics to control theory.

    2)”But abstract and artistic thinking calls for its own kind of critical brainpower. People in more creative majors have to pull material from — essentially — thin air.”
    –Speaking as an upper division engineering major, so much of the engineering field is coming up with a design from “thin air” and then constructing a working mathematical model, build it, test it, and prove that it works.

    3)”Granted, math and science courses often deal in absolutes. No one is going to contemplate the holistic value of a math problem if the solution is incorrect.”
    –Again, this applies to freshmen level science and math classes. Down the road, particularly in the MANY MANY labs we are required to take, if the mathematical model does not match up with the experimental model, nothing is thrown out. We have to analyze why there is a difference.

    Finally to address the “easy” factor of a liberal arts major, I like to look at the requirements in the senior year, which should be the culmination of your years at Cal Poly. In my last year (and I am a senior currently) I am required not only to enroll in a two quarter senior project, but also a year long senior design which simulates (or should) the “real” world. My roommate was a liberal arts major…Her senior project was a paper which she started two days before it was due. And she graduated.

  • Steve

    I tend to think that if most of the people in your major get real jobs straight out of school, then it is probably a better major.

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